Question to mailers. Sending to TLD vs GI

Jesse James

Member
Hey guys,

In email deliverability world.
What is the different between mailing to TLD addresses and mailing to GI addresses.

I mean, If I there's a special warm up schedule?
Do they have a global spam filter or internal like gmail..etc ?
How they blacklist domains/IPs ?

This is the first time mailing to GI data, and I just wanted to have an idea on how it gonna go down.

Thanks a bunch for your help.
Have a wonderful day!
 

frm.mwz

Well-Known Member
Many domains have their own warm-up limits, often unpublished.
The big ones (cables or TL @hotmail @yahoo @gmail @roadrunner) have some guidelines in their postmaster FAQs.
That's why it is almost always better to have a separate mail machine, which is known, warm, updated, has many IPs, sends gently though parallel, works with all kinds of delays/greylisting/etc. (Or you have a great infrastructure with PMTA, GreenArrow or RabbitMQ, or the like, where you can go for fine-graned adjustments and listen-in how it bodes at the other end, eg by feedbackloop.)
 

VVT

Active Member
To add, for the corporate domains (@domain.com in your case), you will face more aggressive filtering and email rejection as compared to the free providers. Different companies use firewalls/filters of their choice and rules will be specific to their organization as designed by their engineers. Big organizations often use Cisco Iron Port as their hw email gateway/firewall. You can monitor/look up your sending Ips/domains here - https://www.senderbase.org/ to have an insight about how your emails are performing at the Iron port protected recipients by looking at the IP status. They offer an API too. Also, symantec, barracuda, watchguard etc are the other popular sw services an organization would use (google to find their look up service). Apart from that, they may look at any DNSBLs (spamhaus for example) for the reputation check (http://mxtoolbox.com/blacklists.aspx). And most commonly used open source spam filter is SpamAssassin, here's a mock up - http://www.mail-tester.com/ (this is what MW uses I guess ;)). This is just general data, to improve your delivery, you should closely look at your deferal/bounce logs and act accordingly. Some providers (Microsoft based) will need you to send back the bounce message to actually deliver the email - that's a pain in the *** :D
 

dante

Member
To add, for the corporate domains (@domain.com in your case), you will face more aggressive filtering and email rejection as compared to the free providers. Different companies use firewalls/filters of their choice and rules will be specific to their organization as designed by their engineers. Big organizations often use Cisco Iron Port as their hw email gateway/firewall. You can monitor/look up your sending Ips/domains here - https://www.senderbase.org/ to have an insight about how your emails are performing at the Iron port protected recipients by looking at the IP status. They offer an API too. Also, symantec, barracuda, watchguard etc are the other popular sw services an organization would use (google to find their look up service). Apart from that, they may look at any DNSBLs (spamhaus for example) for the reputation check (http://mxtoolbox.com/blacklists.aspx). And most commonly used open source spam filter is SpamAssassin, here's a mock up - http://www.mail-tester.com/ (this is what MW uses I guess ;)). This is just general data, to improve your delivery, you should closely look at your deferal/bounce logs and act accordingly. Some providers (Microsoft based) will need you to send back the bounce message to actually deliver the email - that's a pain in the *** :D
I just came across this thread and this post is INACCURATE and info is wrong.

Truth is inboxing GI is easier than TLD, wayyy easier... doesnt need much ip warmup as compared to TLD...
You said big companies spend tons of money on firewall etc. NO, don't u think they might have better things to worry about instead of spending tons on spam filter?

Free providers(hope u meant tlds) have hundrends of millions of userbase so they have an incentive to work on, protecting millions of users from receiving spam.

GI = General Internet, it means all the emails apart from TLDs and cable domains(read below).

TLD = Gmail, Yahoo, hotmail, aol etc (the big ones)

Cable = Comcast, Cox etc email addresses.


To answer ur question OP, there is no special thing for warming up GI as long as ur ip/domain isnt blacklisted u should be fine.
U can easily go high volume per ip without fear of hitting spambox. BUT the issue with GI is ips get burned easily so always segment ur data from GI and TLD and have separate servers for both.

I have been mailing to GI since few years now so believe me this info is right :)

Good luck!
 

VVT

Active Member
You said big companies spend tons of money on firewall etc. NO, don't u think they might have better things to worry about instead of spending tons on spam filter?

This is not something that I think, but it's a FACT ! :) Almost all the medium and large companies out there, who are concerned about information and network security makes very serious effort to fight spam. You know why ? Email can be the most vulnerable network component that's exposed to the Internet in a company. An attacker has to normally bypass components like a firewall, a reverse proxy, a NAT, server firewall, user ACL, SELinux etc to gain access to a server/system (I am not talking about DDoS). Meanwhile, if the attacker sends a trojen infected file or a ransomware attached file to an employee of X company and if the recipient opens/installs the script - virus can either be spread to other systems or he can gain access to that machine and can wipe/lock data etc. Doesn't it make sense to you if a $ 3 Mil company goes for a $ 3k Cisco Iron Port to close the above said loop hole ? :) Also, such companies will have well defined protocols/steps communicated with the employees on how to respond to unsolicited emails - types/actions etc. And, I don't have time to explain all related stuffs as well.

And about the resistance to spam from both GIs and TLDs - Like said above, companies that are concerned about their security will have more custom rules in place. Example : you send a 25M attachment to Google - no issue, you send a 6 MB file to a corporate IBM notes server - it rejects the message saying that your attachment size exceeded max allowed 5 MB (can vary). You send some emails to outlook.com or hotmail.com via a relay with all SPF/DKIM and DMARC intact - no issue, you repeat the same with Office360 (same vendor -MS) - you will be asked to verify the relation between your sending address and relay IP. I can pick a lot such examples where a corporate email domain being more aggressive than a free email provider. That's why, senderbase makes sense - senderscore makes sense - returnpath and its heavily priced certification makes sense.

Regarding deliverability - you may be right - cuz you have experience - and @sendizo is also of the same opinion. I respect that. I may be having a different set of customers on a different arena. Anyway, as long as my approach works for me and yours works for you, there shouldn't be any problem for both of us :D

Peace !
 

frm.mwz

Well-Known Member
Am very gratefull to all of the above input and will take it into account as far as I can for future mailings.
Thx guys!
:cool:
 

duffhome

Active Member
@VVT Thank for the detailed input. Your point of view makes lotta sense. Much Appreciated.
I really enjoy posts like this where we all have different opinion and we learn from each other.
Thank you all guys.
 

dante

Member
This is not something that I think, but it's a FACT ! :) Almost all the medium and large companies out there, who are concerned about information and network security makes very serious effort to fight spam. You know why ? Email can be the most vulnerable network component that's exposed to the Internet in a company. An attacker has to normally bypass components like a firewall, a reverse proxy, a NAT, server firewall, user ACL, SELinux etc to gain access to a server/system (I am not talking about DDoS). Meanwhile, if the attacker sends a trojen infected file or a ransomware attached file to an employee of X company and if the recipient opens/installs the script - virus can either be spread to other systems or he can gain access to that machine and can wipe/lock data etc. Doesn't it make sense to you if a $ 3 Mil company goes for a $ 3k Cisco Iron Port to close the above said loop hole ? :) Also, such companies will have well defined protocols/steps communicated with the employees on how to respond to unsolicited emails - types/actions etc. And, I don't have time to explain all related stuffs as well.

And about the resistance to spam from both GIs and TLDs - Like said above, companies that are concerned about their security will have more custom rules in place. Example : you send a 25M attachment to Google - no issue, you send a 6 MB file to a corporate IBM notes server - it rejects the message saying that your attachment size exceeded max allowed 5 MB (can vary). You send some emails to outlook.com or hotmail.com via a relay with all SPF/DKIM and DMARC intact - no issue, you repeat the same with Office360 (same vendor -MS) - you will be asked to verify the relation between your sending address and relay IP. I can pick a lot such examples where a corporate email domain being more aggressive than a free email provider. That's why, senderbase makes sense - senderscore makes sense - returnpath and its heavily priced certification makes sense.

Regarding deliverability - you may be right - cuz you have experience - and @sendizo is also of the same opinion. I respect that. I may be having a different set of customers on a different arena. Anyway, as long as my approach works for me and yours works for you, there shouldn't be any problem for both of us :D

Peace !
Hi,

You may certainly be right about big corp such as IBM etc(actually I wanted to talk about general GI data not about the big corps email addresses).... as when we see the big corp data that may be around less than 1% of the total GI data in the world.

I have mailed to tons of domains and from what I can say is GI is very easy to inbox as compared to TLD regardless if its spam or legit mail, although ofc I never mailed anything like malware, virus etc that you are talking about so you must be right about that but again all TLD's has that feature, yahoo is the most strict to inbox from my exp.

And I am sorry if I came off as strong lol on the first post above :p
Its because I have seen countless people on forums(not here other marketing forums) spreading wrong knowledge to newbies which makes me sad as those people will believe anything which is thrown at them and later they get to know that the info was wrong.

Good to see full informative post from you :)
 
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